L’autre pays du fromage, royaume du whine ( et non pas du wine)?
Hier soir la France affrontait les Pays-bas dans le cadre de la Coupe des Nations Clanbase CTF. Vous vous souvenez de la petite polémique née après le match contre l’allemagne au cours duquel, les Allemands avaient refusé un changement de serveur entre les deux maps en application du règlement Clanbase.
Et bien hier, on a vécu la même situation à peu de choses près. En effet, après quelques instants les deux équipes ont décidé de jouer sur un serveur français (le Skarla). La première map se déroule et les français l’emportent 2/0.
C’est alors que les Néerlandais se plaignent d’une différence de ping en leur desavantage et demandent donc un changement de serveur. Les français, échaudés par l’épisode allemand, refusent. C’est la confusion la plus totale puisqu’alors que les français restent sur le serveur, les Néerlandais le quittent à l’exception de Da toeter qui s’amuse tranquillou à passer des trix sur cp9. L’admin quitte aussi le serveur et revient en demandant aux joueurs de venir sur irc pour trouver un nouveau serveur. Nouveau refus des français. Discussions en privé et finalement l’admin craque et s’en va en démissionnant de son poste d’admin clanbase.
Résultat, une décision devrait être prise par le head admin. Connaissant la propention de Clanbase à favoriser les pays nordiques, on peut craindre le pire. Une seule map jouée, quid pour la suite ?
Pour vous donner une illustration de l’attitude des NL, voila quelques mots échangés sur IRC avant et après la première map:
Avant
Avant => Ever = Forever (NL), Fetzer (admin)
[20:46:16] ever\afk\tgs: 81.91.66.181:27960 pass jawole (skarla)
[20:46:16] ever\afk\tgs: there then?
[20:46:19] ever\afk\tgs: 5 ms
[20:46:20] ever\afk\tgs: not much
[20:46:21] ever\afk\tgs: ok?
[20:48:39] [CUP]fetZer: so what server now? have you both agreed on the jawole server ?
Après
[21:53] ever\32nd\tgs: fr server
[21:53] ever\32nd\tgs: roxxxxxx!
[21:54] SlugZ: but even it didn’t rox
[21:54] PlayMobil: well why did u accept it for 1st map ?
[21:54] SlugZ: ping is fair
[21:54] ever\32nd\tgs: we didnt accep
[21:54] ever\32nd\tgs: admin forced
et le meilleur pour la fin:
[Audax] your connections are worse than ours, but still we get disadvantage because of that
Mon opinion: C ca !
News d'avant: CTF Internations – GO FRANCE
News d'après: BWTDML – semaine 4
!
whylf ta eut chaud au fesses la, g faillit te baiser en beauté =)))
si j avais pas eut autant a lire je t aurais eut en fait, j arrive a la fin je vois 96 97 !
me suis dis j’vais m’le faire :p
zetes tous trop lol changez pas!
/me retourne matter le psg its better
ça en est où au fait la scène de ménage entre luis et ronnie ?
dtc
Luis quitte le domicile conjugal
et ronnie s installe avec anelka.
le psg c une grande famille de gay en fait
Playing with ping 50, spiking to 90 is shit.
Yes, france had the same problems so it was fair, but still it was a shit server!!!
Some more info: france only proposed to play on french servers. According to the rules, nl could have declined. But we agreed, we are so nice!!! :)
Austria and Germany did not play on a french server, but we did!! Bless Holland, lol :)
And the server was fine at the beginning, but it changed ingame. That was the reason we wanted a serverchange. According to the rules, it was allowed.
So you see, NL just tried to have a fair game on a french server, but it turned out to be a very bad server (no ping 50, but spiking to 90!!), that was not nice to play on.
Please stop bitching on CB, because they have still a decision to make so you cannot compare this game with your game against germany, yet.
« Some more info: france only proposed to play on french servers. According to the rules, nl could have declined. But we agreed, we are so nice!!! :)
Austria and Germany did not play on a french server, but we did!! Bless Holland, lol :) »
Happily you didn’t refuse after playing Germany on an NL server and refusing to change server when GER asked for it for the second map, bless Holland for sure. :)
Then again, it is surely better for an NL team to play on NL servers… Well content yourself with NL leagues then. Playing in an European cup (as in outside Benelux) means you will have to play on shitty servers, because not everybody has 30 ms connections available in their country.
But it’s always better to have 10 players with an equal not-so-good connection, than 5 players with a stable 25 ms ping vs 5 other with a stable 65 ms ping.
This is what clanbase is all about, trying to make teams from all european countries play each other on the internet, and trying to make it as equal as possible, not as close to LAN as possible.
oui je suis serieux en disant que c pas ping only…
sansai, le mec qui arrive a whiner encore plus que moi…
tg&fu gommer
TG ou bien j’appelle TomBoss /\/\<°:°>
First get your facts straight:
Germany-Holland was played on a austrian server
France-Holland was played on a french server
So stop saying that this is international so we have to deal with bad ping, because it was THE FRENCH TEAM that had trouble playing OUTSIDE FRANCE.
germany asked for a serverchange but it was denied by the admin, because there was no reason for it (read the rules).
Some more info: france only proposed to play on french servers. According to the rules, nl could have declined <- no u couldn't has there was less than 20% difference of average ping :/
sansai : justement non, il suffit pour moi de jouer sur un serveur danois, j aurai 50 de ping..mais horrible à jouer…alors que le scandi/danois avec une bonne connection aura aucun problème..
j’ping meme bien un serveur italien (40 de ping) mais ça n’a quand meme rien à voir avec un serveur fr à 40 ms ossi..
la location + routing , sv_fps joue pas mal…
tout un ensemble de chose…
donc si un serveur sux pour certain , il sera pas forcément mauvais pour d’autres :)
le lpb a parlé :)
Aurax, dont say one more word, you said it all in this sentence. You admit france didnt have a ping advantage on the server.
That’s all that matters in terms of changing server between the two maps.
The only thing that could make a change of server necessary would have been a change of pings between maps so that it would not have been faire to keep that server.
I dont think it was the case.
I was told it was played on an NL server, I couldn’t check it on the clanbase webby though. :x
Still, you don’t seem to be able to understand one thing : « So stop saying that this is international so we have to deal with bad ping, because it was THE FRENCH TEAM that had trouble playing OUTSIDE FRANCE. »
What’s wrong with that if it’s the most fair solution ?
Don’t tell you are used to 25 ms pings blah blah etc, as I already said, and I’m pretty certain I’m right about that, clanbase is not about playing on LAN-like connections in the original idea, it’s about playing on even connections.
Where the connections LAN-like ? No, they weren’t. It’s inet, deal with it.
Where the connections even ? Yes, they were. You had lag spikes, so did french players, but still pings were very even (3 ms of average ping difference is nothing, especially when the average pings are around 60 ms, I suppose you won’t discuss that).
What is wrong with playing on a french server then ? Nothing, as long as the french do not get an advantage from it.
Learn to deal with 50+ ms pings or stop clanbase, but please stop complaining because you’re playing with an equal connection instead of ping owning your opponent with a LAN-like connection like you would have liked to.
What is going to happen the day you’ll have to play nations like Croatia or Portugal like seen in other mods ?
Oh and just a note : that clanbase rule about beeing able to refuse to play on an equal server if it’s in your opponent’s country is just plain stupid.
OK, Forget what I said about the rule :)
c est quoi le predateur naturel
des Calimero ?
que j en fasse un laché !
This is specially the reason why we didn’t disconnect from the server, and the admin didn’t follow you in a hurry, as far as i can remember :-)
Bref, c’est l’hôpital qui se fout de la charité :/
C marrant on nous reconnait vite fait nous les brelles.
On a jamais de probs de ping.
10 ou 150 ? c pareil.
On voit pas la différence, nous les brelles.
Alors on s’interroge quand on voit ke ca pose des probs o zotres.
On a envie de comprendre. Mais on est des brelles.
Alors on dit : je v fais un laché de prédateurs de Calimero.
Comme ca on se sent un peu moins seules.
C vrai, on s’en fout du ping nous.
De toute facon on se fait défoncer.
Nous les brelles.
alalalala mais comment c’est trop important tout ça
pour un peu ça va m’empêcher de dormir
Bah rofl koi
boooooooooo ! le ping !
C’est vraiment trop injuste ! (c) Calimero le petit poussin =)
NL team just tried to have a fair match, following the clanbase rules. Now some people are claiming to know what those rules are but they simply don’t.
Carma: Connections changed ingame for both sides. This is a reason to allow a serverchange. Read the rules before you respond.
The nl team just asked for the serverchange as was allowed because it’s in the rules of clanbase and those rules have a reason and they are definately not stupid. Those reasons are subjective and can differ from your own ideas for a perfect world, ofcourse.
The biggest issue here is that you guys think it’s all about a fair game, but to others it’s also about a good game.
You can have a fair game versus Australia with each team on 850 ping, still it’s not done. Croatia and Portugal aren’t in the Nations Cup because of the rule that they HAVE to be able to play outside their home-country (and thus accepting a major ping-disadvantage, simply because their connections aren’t as sophisticated as the northern part of europe).
If it wasn’t for this rule, good-connection-nations should play all their matches in portugal or croatia with ping 150 and that would be considered fair??!??!
But that would spoil the game, wouldn’t it?
For you guys ping 50-90 might be normal, just as ping 30 is normal to NL and ping 150 is normal to Croatia. Hope you see my point. Ofcourse you think it’s no big deal, just as ping 150 is no big deal for Croatians either.
u just are writing 50 ms (and both teams) is too much for u and that to have 30 versus 50–>90 is ‘normal’
this is ur view about what ‘fair’ (+play?) is?
*LOL*
He wasnt speaking of having a fair game, but a GOOD game.
If NL had their 30 ms and France had their 90 ms ping as always, it would be a GOOD game.
thats what I understood =P
this is what I was talking about : if he wants sub 30 ms pings only, maybe he souldn’t play clanbase, but only LANs and NL leagues. FYI Audax, Croatia and Portugal have participated in other Nation Cups, altough it was not the same mod, still it was clanbase.
Finding it right to play on your nice 25 ms ping while your opponents have 3 times that ping, knowing you can play on even connections even if they aren’t that good, is just, well, to say the least, weird to me. We certainly don’t have the same definition of a good game.
audax chut!!! tu t enfonce dans des discussions de comptoir et des explications de caniveau, (tu m as l air bien borner comme mec), on te demande pas de jouer avec 150 de ping mais si le terme egalité n’aucun sens pour toi retourne t’acheter un cerveau (y en a surement a vendre aux etats-unis).
moi je me méfierai de la qualité de ces cerveaux la :)
sansai: Maybe france shouldn’t play clanbase nations cup if they can’t play on servers outside france.
why so Audax ? :)
What is wrong in playing on your home server if the pings are equal ? Just give me a good reason apart from « I can’t play on LAN in a Nation Cup :((( » ?
well sansai, that would mean we all have to play Croatia on ping 150 as well, and Croatia winning the title because they are the only ones who are used to such high pings.
I will *again* compare the situation to the FRA-GER match.
We, france, play in the NC for a while, and we almost always played on other countries home server. Thus we agree to play outside france, right?
We even played against GER in germany, even if *the rules* that u’re trying to use against us are the same. We were forced by the admin to play there, because the ping average during the server test was almost equal (don’t remember the % diff).
During the game it became worse for us, and not for them, the admin didn’t care, even when carma (80ms ger pinger) joined for the second map.
We had better reasons to change the server, and we weren’t allowed to. So i guess that’s your fault here, not our :-(
In that case, I advise you to contact the supervisor with all the available evidence you have, but you probably already did that.
Then again, it is the cupadmin’s decision which is always subjective..
But what you could do is simply decline the german server, although the admin forces you. Just copy/paste the rules.
Alors, it’s really bad that the cupadmin of the game germany-france did not know the rules. They should do something about it :(
i agree with that, but the rules seemed clear for the germans and the admin, and the supervisor didn’t do anything, so it must have been the right thing to do.
If so, we want it to be the same here, if not, their stupidity is even greater :o)
erm audax, being used to high pings or not can’t be taken in consideration for the server choice I think, at least it’s not in the ClanBase rules.
If teams like Croatia are used to play with high pings, it’s sure an advantage but they have but you can’t blame them (or france) for that…
Do croatian people play on 150 ms on their home servers ? I don’t think so. :)
Do they train on high pings to play well even with those pings when they play western europe countries ? I don’t know, maybe, if so you are entitled to do the same. If they can do it, you can do it, can’t you ?
If you can’t play on high pings and aren’t willing to do that, if you don’t want to lose time training on high pings, well don’t play in European Cups and secure your low ping in Benelux Cups and on LANs. :)
Why would France play on higher pings than what they already have to deal with, when you simply refuse to play as long as your pings are 10 ms higher than your usual 25 ms average ?
It’s not that hard to play a little on french servers (or any server with a similar latency) the few days before a game vs the FRA team, to get used to that latency, trying to prepare for a fair game…
Your way of doing things is to keep on playing on NL servers, then find a server where your average ping will be almost the same as what you get at home (10 ms higher at most), knowing you will ping own your opponents by 20 or 30 ms as usual, and thinking it’s ok this way..
just in case you didn’t know it, because you may have never knew what it is to play everyday on a high ping, it is very disadvantaging to play on high pings even when you master them. So don’t even think to say « french are used to high pings so they are not *that* disadvantaged by a 20-30 ms disadvantage », because it would be very wrong. Especially in base Q3 in which scanhit weapons like LG and MG take an important part.
Playing on high pings does mean to lower everyone’s comfort, accuracies, etc, but if it is the only way to make a game even, it is the only way to make a victory honourable.
tain il est nul ce feuilleton franco-hollandais , il s’éternise, le scénario est tout pourri et il est même pas doublé…hop je zappe.
Good comments, maybe you should become a CB admin and change the rules.
Until then, start writing a book with the first line « I have a dream… » :)
c’est bon audax c’est fini maintenant, vous l’avez eu votre avantage à l’average !
*bisoux*
nice, making fun of me, but nothing to say really, I guess I convinced you. :)
No sansai, i wasnt making fun of you and i do agree with you that the rules are in favour of lpb countries
>>
merci kharn, mais c est pas notre méritez, mais de clanbase.. vous le savez
la bonne chance dans le playoff!